I never have feared death
even though its hand
is heavier than vile
My fear all
is to die in a place
where
the wage of the undertaker
is higher
than the price of
a man's freedom
even though its hand
is heavier than vile
My fear all
is to die in a place
where
the wage of the undertaker
is higher
than the price of
a man's freedom
Excerpt from Ahmad Shamlou
and my favorite sketch of Kathe Kollwitz
Sister, remember?
For more poems see http://www.shamlu.com or http://www.shamlou.org. The wikpedia entry spells his name as Shamlou.
48 comments:
Oh dear, I'm morbid posting again! hmm!
I just read through a Wiki biography of Ahmad Shamlou. An interesting man, seemingly at odds with the various Iranian establishments for much of his life. He seems to have lived in relative peace with the Islamic Republic in his final years, though. Was he a supporter of the religious government, or did he just want to live the rest of his life in Iran?
I think that Shamlou's quote about death has something to say about present day Iraq. Life has been pretty cheap there for the past several years.
For some reason, this sketch reminds me of Charlton Heston in The Planet of the Apes. A bit wierd, I suppose. ;)
Shamlou, supporter of IRI???
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
By no means. Read his poems to learn how publicly godless he was. But Shamlou had sufficient suffering in the hands of the Shah regime to "not" warrant the IRI putting him in prison or killing him!
Shamlou was a brave man. And by no means was he favored by the IRI. You won't hear a word of tribute to his magnificent world or life coming out, but in elite intellectual publications.
David,
Kathe Kollwitz was an anti-war artist, did you know?
In Berlin's monument for the unknown soldier, you will find one of her most poignant pieces of sculpture.
So, you guessed my subliminal intentions of this post correctly.
گو به جلاد امتحان لازم نبود تاريخ گويد......
pen Name
Alas Naj, I fear not death
if there is nothing more then there is no more to fear
If there is more, then I fear not the maker, I am at Peace - and fully aware of my weaknesses - I can 'live' without anything - I do not love temporal life so much as to forsake Eternal Life.
Indeed I fear little if anything at all, though pain and disease are no more welcome, than the pain of oppression and/or violence ...
We all waver between moments of joy and ecstacy, and momments of sadness and suffering ...
Between moments of physical & mental joy and happiness, and momemts of physical & mental pain & sorrow
Thanks Naj for encouraging me to read about Kathe Kollwitz. Actually, I had never heard of her. I am very impressed by her capacity to capture emotions in her drawings and sculptures! I am not surprised that she was an anti-war artist, as she lost her son and grandson in the two world wars.
I will try to find some time this week to read some of Shamlou's poetry. :)
David,
Glad!
Let me know if you get to reading poems. Did you know that Shamlu had translated and recited two of Margot Bickel's poems. Surprisinly, she is not famous but amongst GErman spiritualists and Iranians of the same genre!
hmmm.
But it may be a testament to Shamlous' extraordinary ability to take something like St Exupery's Little Prince, and make it one of his own.
(The Mohammad Ghazi translation of the Little prince in Iran, for example, is far more faithful to the original French text than Shamlou's translation. ... somehow, with Shamlou's death, Iranian poetry died for me (in 2000) ... no lying, Simn Behbahani is still alive ... the last of them ... sigh ... all there is now is immitation ... Iranian poets have gone cinematograhic ... more sigh! And back to work! :(
I had read an interview of his in The Guardian a while ago. Those lines you quote are so powerful! I'm reading some of his poems this summer for sure. Correct me if I'm wrong but those lines are so reminiscent of Bahadur Shah Zafar's poem that he wrote in exile when he talked about not finding a place for burying his body in a nation he called home. I may be completely off the mark since I read the poem in English.
p.s. Your post on the brain drain was very informative.
Hi Id, nice of you to drop by; it's been a while.
I do not know about Bahadur Shah Zafar, actually. Shamlou was not a great fan of "orientalism", and for his opposition to "traditionalism" in Iran, he did get a couple of good smacks from the old and the grumpy critcal circuits in Iran. ;)
As far as I know, he flirted with Japanese Haiku's for a bit. But Shamlou has dedicated a MASSIVE amount of work to documenting Iran's folk culture, in a pseud-encylopedic seried called Ketab-e Koucheh. His wife, Aida, is slowly getting it published. Letter "A" cover of his book was banned (don't know if it is still the case) for dedicating a good bit of folk tales to "aakhoond" (or Mullah!)
Shamlou's work is translated. Bt I cannot comment on the quality of translation, as I have not looked for it. Please do share with me what you read.
Best
By the way, the lines I quoted are my own translation. they sound like this in Persian.
Hargez az marg naharaside am
har chand, dastanash as ebtezal shekanade tar bashad
bari-
harase man
hameh az mordan dar sarzaminist
ke dar an
mozde goorkan
as bahaye azadiye adami bishtar bashad.
(i have a feeling I am getting a couple of bashad and boodeands mixed up! old age :)) )
Id it is:
You might be right - Shamlou knew a lot of words but he was not a well-educated man - he looked to others for poetic inspiration and ideas.
pen Name
Shamlou wasn't a well educated man!
Huh!
Since when is EDUCATION synomymous with inspiration??????
no wonder people LIKE YOU shut him up; for your phony "mystic judisprudent!"
I won't even bother conversing with you on this one Pen!
naj:
Shamlou got his ideas from other poets, e.g. Eluhard. He did not have a good poetic imagination. But once he heard a poem that captured his imagination he would have his muse and go develop similar themes in his own manner. Since he knew a lot of words, he could was a decent poet.
The most under-rated Iranian poet of the last 70 years has been Ehsan-e Tabari.
pen Name
"Since when is EDUCATION synomymous with inspiration??????"
Oh sweetness, thank you, I so needed to laugh today!!!
:) :) :) lol
"Shamlou didn't have good poetic imagination"
It takes a poet to know a poet; I would say!
Shamlou has done a formidable task in bringing to Iran "other" poet's imaginations. He opened the door to the world's poetry, and he did so BEACSUE he WAS a poet!
Perhaps one should wonder why Mr Tabari's poetry has remained obscure: he was TOO educated, perhaps for his poems to "make sense", i.e. to be sensed (and not to be meaningful)!
Nunya:
======================
No true artist has ever had it easy with people who are stuck in their webs of rationalizations and philosophizations.
St Exupery had a WONDERFUL description for such people "grown-ups" ... or as shamloo called them: Adam Bozorgha!
World is a crappy place BECAUSE of these Adam bozorgha!
Euh! I need a glass of COLD water now!
nunya:
The Persian poets of old were required to have known several tens of thousands of lines of poetry of other poets. Additionally they were steeped in the sciences of their times. They were poets with scholarly training.
Fredowsi, Hafiz, Sa'adi, Rumi were all extremely learned men - that's why when reading their poetry you need to consult commentarie.
In the West, poets such as Ptre Arch, Dante, Herrick, Donne, Shakespear, Milton and many many others also had deep scholarly (classical in your parlance) education.
That is how muse and education in poetry are related.
And it is precisely the absence of this education that makes the contemporary poets of Iran, Afghanistan and elsewhere so provincial.
pen Name
Note to self: One must not disturb one's sleep, by getting angry over comments such as:
And it is precisely the absence of this education that makes the contemporary poets of Iran, Afghanistan and elsewhere so provincial.
Pen Name deplores the absence of "classical Education" in the contemporary Iranian poetry, and blames it for the "provencial" nature of contemporary poetry!
I have a few issues:
1. What does provincial mean in his esteemed opinion?
2. Is provincial a pejorative adjective?
3. Who are these PROVINCIAL contemporary poets? Are people like Shamlou, Akhavan, Behbahani Provincial?
4. How does one compare the extremely "leanedness" of men who have lived at least 6 centuries before us to the quantity and quality of knowledge available to the contemporary man?
5. What is the definition of "scholarly" Poetry?
6. Does Art need to be scholar?
7. Why?
8. Does art need to be subject to a hierarchy reminiscent of the class system to which Pen Name has referred to previously by statements such as:
"Iranian nobility shines through?"
Anyways, in the absence of time, all these questions got lumped into a less than civilized angry message a few hours ago. I took the liberty of deleting them.
naj:
The "Classical" education, both in Europe and in the Near East started with the Platonic Trivium: Logic; Rhetoric, and Grammar [Greek, Arabic, Latin]. To this day, the Islamic Colleges in Qum, Najaf, and elsewhere start their students from there.
Then it moved on to other (Liberal) Arts - Philosophy (part of which became Natural Philosophy which became the Sciences], Music, Mathematics, etc.
The men of the past (and some of the women as well) were educated in the sense that they were taught knowledge and not information. And they were trained to be able to make wise judgments based on that knowledge. Since neither human condition nor human nature has changed over the historical times, the education that they received was comparable to the liberal Arts education that one could receive at the present time. Yes, there is more accumulated knowledge and information now but when it comes to the Liberal Arts much of it has remained the same. You could engage Plato today in a conversation (if he were alive) on Physics and Metaphysics because he had been trained in the core liberal arts. Attention here: only if you yourself have been so trained; if you are trained in a narrow (trade) specialty like medicine or engineering or economics or law that would be impossible - I am afraid.
What has been produced in Iran over the last 100 years is provincial in the sense that it is not of global appeal - it does not have a language, a subject matter, and an inspiration that could appeal to global audiences. You may compare the works of the poets who wrote in Persian from Iran, Afghanistan, or Tajikistan to the works of such poets of Spanish such as Vallejo, Neruda, Lorca, Paz, Alberti and others.
In fact, the only piece of poetry by an Iranian poet that was not provincial was the long poem "Hedyar Baba-ye Salam!" written in Azeri Turkish by Mr. "Shahriyar".
The poets of Iran, China, India, and Medieval Europe were all trained scholars in the Liberal Arts of their day. They could distill their feelings and senses into poetic form by filtering them through their (theoretical) knowledge. And their knowledge was a model of how the world worked and how it was supposed to work.
Yes, Art requires deep knowledge of the world - both theory and practice. You can see this most clearly in Music where scholarship is absolutely essential to the art of composition. But what goes for music also goes for other arts.
Art is a form of Catharsis - thus each artistic expression is new utterance in a sequence of utterances since Mankind emerged. It behooves one to listen to the voices of the past and to make judgment among them before creating his own voice. You need scholarship to study the past, to learn from what has already been done, to make sound judgments, and to create your own voice.
When I made my comment about the "Noble Iranian faces" it was in the sense of physiognomy - not in the sense of hierarchy of hereditary nobles.
But I must admit that I do not find anything wrong with a hierarchy that is based on ethics, duty, money, courage, or merit. I reject, however, hierarchy based on blood and race. It is against Islam.
pen Name
Pen Name,
I am not convinced; and I surely disagree with your assessment of Heydar Baba being the ONLY universal poem of the past 100 years. However, I have heard that from all Azaris, who have recited that poem to me ad nauseam! I always found it peculiar how some people can be so nationalistic about poetry! Of course, Shahriar being the ONLY pre-revolutionary poet to be "accepted" by your Imam Khomeini, your assessment does not surprise me.
That said, I think your "platonic" view of the world is in stark opposition to "poetics". So I just accept that we will nto share the same taste in art, never.
I agree with you that classical training will give conceptual depth to one's creation, but I don't think it will make it any more artsy or poetic!
I agree with you that modern days call for specialized training and stratification of information, and not wisdom or knowing. I do not think, however, that scholars make the best poets/artists of the world.
Plato, as far as I know, has not produced any poems, has he? To be able to converse about the physical and metaphysical aspects of teh universe does not make one poetic!
The Persian poetry has not been tested universally. It is not even explored universally. Once it is, I will pay attention to your assessment of its provincial-ness! That Shamlu was nominated for the Nobel prize, perhaps is a testament to his ability to speak beyond ethnicity. (of course you may want to say that coincidence of his nomination with IRI's massacre of the political prisoners in Evin was a political gesture by the international community and thus proof of Shamloo's provincialness!!) You on the other hand, seem to exemplify something as ethnic as Heydar Baba as the only universal product of Iran's encounter with modernity and modernism. That said, I love Shahriar's poems too. I don't think he was a very educated man either.
If anything, he (Shahriyar, the medical school drop-out) sought solace in the euphoria of opium. Now that is not very platonic, opium I mean, is it?
naj:
Plato's writing was beautiful - just read the last days of Socrates.
To writ epoetry that lives you have to have intellectual depth.
That's why poetry in the West id dead - academics write it and read it but it is not alive.
In Greece, in Iran, among the Arabs, poetry is alive.
About Khomeini, as you know he was a human being and he made mistakes as well. He was not Immaculate. And he wrote ghazzals.
Opium has been the bane of many a sensitive soul in Iran; Dehkoda, Akhwan-e Sales, Neema Yushij, and many other poets and musicians were addicts.
The Persian poets of old are well known outside of Iran: Fedowsi whose stories are known to Turkic people of Central Asia and Antolia as well Europe and America, Hafiz, Sa'adi, Rumi, and Omar Khayyam (probably the second most loved poet in Russia after Pushkin).
It is the new poets that are not and for good reasons.
pen Name
the only "reason" (and not so good one) for the new poets being unknown in the world, is because Iran (and it's modernism) is cut out of the world, grace to the Islamic republic of Iran, and the hostage taking incident, that shut the doors of curiosity on Iran, except in some middle-eastern ploitical science departments, or some Islamic studies departments, that naturally focus on Persian Classics and the few poets you mentioned.
Give it time, and Iran's new literature will find its audience.
In a country, Iran, where the most talented individuals get funneled into medicine and engineering schools, and the olders know and admire none but Hafiz and Ferdowsi, I am not surprised that poetry is dying.
But, Iran will have its saturation of "specialists" soon, and more and more people will join the humanity and literature studies departments in western universities, and these people will promote Iran's rich modern literature.
That Hafiz and Saadi books are as popularly sold in Iran as Quran is, and the fact that they are well alive in daily lives of people, is not an indication of their art communicating with the perception of the ordinary readers of their work on an aesthetic level. It is a sign of cultural exposure to them.
It is fashionable in Iran to beat the drums of the greatness of the great. and it takes courage to defend teh white poetry of Sohrab! I understand, that as a member of ex-generation, you are unwilling to experience modern poetry in Iran. And you may think it is dead. It is not.
That we have lost connection with the written word, is an outcome of the communication revolution of the past 100 years: Planes, telephones, Cinema.
I distinctly remember putting in a comment here yesterday!...???
naj:
I am old but not yet ossified.
The modern Persian poets of Iran, Afghanistan, and Tadjikistan are experimenting with form, language, content.
As experiments they are all right - some of them I even enjoy.
But they are not great works of art.
It is true that EU & North Americans do not like us; which I really do not care one way or another. They are not the whole world. There is Pakistan, India, Arabs, Turks, Chinese and South Americans - surely not every one is against us?
The situation in Ianian Persian poetry is the same as that of the rest of the Arts: the art of the novel, architecture, ceramics, painting, music etc.
We just do not have reative people yet who can produce works of art which is at the same level as that which preceeded them.
pen Name
Id it is
===================
Yes your comment is here, and it generated a long protracted argument between Pen Name and I! :)
Pen
====================
I disagree about EU and US disliking us. I TOTALLY disagree with that notion.
Re experimental nature of modern works: This is called post-modernity! We (the whole hhuman society) will get over that in a couple of hundred years.
naj:
They (US & EU - government & people) are anti-clerical to the core and for them an Islamic Republic is an affront to their sense of natural order of things.
And almost half of them think themselves superior to us - humility is not their strength.
They have internalized the Philosophy of Power expounded by Friedrich Nietzsche.
pen Name
Naj,
I think I understand what you are trying to say regarding artists, but perhaps it's just my observation of them.
My understanding of artists is that the way they see things, and attempt to share their perceptions are flexible, and colorful, and they don't have problems with grey area.
Some people have a desperate need to clearly define everything. To see things in black and white.
I think that black and white thinking must be very stifling for artists, don't you?
Anti-clerical?!!!
Well, I guess clerics who issue death Fatwahs because of works of FICTION, do not provoke much respect and sympathy?
The EU and the US is also AGAINST people such as George Bush and their binarist utopianism concerning GOOD OR EVIL.
Nietzsche's Philosophy of Power ... hmm may I remind you of what you mentioned a few minutes ago yourself?
I must admit that I do not find anything wrong with a hierarchy that is based on ethics, duty, money, courage, or merit.
We noble Persians, especially the AQ/QuareQoyunlus of Persia do understand Nitzsche so well, do we not? ;)
The Westerners lack humility? I haven't seen you exercise much humility either, for example.
Nunya
------------
I don't know how artists see themselves and the world. If an artist can communicate an emotion or a concept to me, by means of his form, style, technique, I seek "myself" in his/her work, and thus I come to an understanding of him/her through my window.
If he/she cannot communicate anything to me, I just leave the discussion/understanding of his work to others who do. Even if that "others" community may be as small as one person, the artist himself.
I find it the most futile exercise to spend time discussing why something is NOT art, or what is lacking in one's art! We have a saying in persian:
Gar to behtar mizani, bestan bezan!
"If you play it better, go ahead!"
If someone doesn't like a particular work of art, one should create his own. If someone wants a sensible art that withstands the test of criticism, one has to become an engineer!
That is my philosophy.
naj:
I do not consider myself better than anybody else - morally or as a human being. Europeans and North Americans do. I know this from first-hand experience with them.
I am not going around the world telling people how to live their lives. I am not running seminars selecting targets for bombing in other countries. I do not go and talk about a policy of carrots-and-sticks as though non-Iranians are donkeys.
I do not understand your point regarding Power and Hierarchy. I am not against Power; I am against nihilistic use of power per Mr. Nitzsche.
If you think EU & US are gainst Bush you are sadly mistaken. There are minorities against Bush because they blame him for incompetence in execution of an imperial project. They are not against that project itself.
If they are against Bush, why don't they remove him from power? Why did they vote for him again? No my friend, you are closing your eyes to the reality of the situation.
You have to understand something about the people of EU and US: that they think somehow we Muslims are in a dead-end of history, that we are intrinsically backward, and must be brought back to the right (post-Modernist anyone?) path and enlightened.
That, by the Grace of God, will never happen and the Light of True Religion shall not be extinguished by misguided men and women of Europe and North America.
pen Name
Naj,
I had a friend who was an artist. She needed freedom to work on her art. I occasionally write poetry. If I thought about the "right way" to do it, I would never find joy or release in doing it.
:) :)
Gar to behtar mizani, bestan bezan!
"If you play it better, go ahead!"
I like it.
I usually tell people "If you can do it better, and you don't like the way I do it, go ahead and do it yourself!"
That's all I was trying to say.
I'm the last person to say that art should be judged, especially after reading "The Third Chimpanzee". One of the funniest parts of the book is where some big hoity toity art critics are seriously analyzing art done by an elephant, a chimp, and a gorilla.
You have to understand something about the people of EU and US: that they think somehow we Muslims are in a dead-end of history, that we are intrinsically backward, and must be brought back to the right (post-Modernist anyone?) path and enlightened.
the Postmodern Foucault, and the postmodern Jameson, and post modern Baudrillard, disagree with you!
I think muslims have donme a great injustice to themselves by exacerbating the Westerner's view: death Fatwas, explosive belts, suicide bombings in Israel ... What saddens me is that ALL these STUPID forms of uprising have played EXACTLY in the hands of those who do want Islam extinct!
Grace of god is disgraced by the likes of Bin Ladan!
Since this is a post about poetry, may I ask you to please refrain from walking into politics at this point?
==========================
Nunya,
:))
Pen
=========================================
I am sure you won't be surprised if I told you that what you sent me did not quite satisfy my poetic likings. Madihe sorayee, I think, is somewhat provincial too. Don't you think?
But thank you for sharing.
Because it is very long, and in Persian, I won't post it.
naj:
So you don't like Ferdowsi, you do not like Hafiz, but you like Shamlou.
Hmm....
What's wrong with this picture?
I don't like Madihe-sorayee does not equal to I don't like Ferdowsi and Hafiz.
But I don't think you are in a position to decide what is right or wrong with any picture.
naj:
The so-called "Madihe-sorayee" that I quoted was from Shahnameh.
But not everything that Ferdowsi has is madihe sorayee! (Although most of it is. Guess why? He was COMMISSIONED to write it that way! I realize, however, that the most epical works of art in the world are those comissioned by kings or churches; which are your favorite establishments; and not mine!)
No I do not like EVERYthing that comes out of Hafiz, Ferdowsi or Shamloo, only because it is written by Hafiz, Ferdowsi or Shamloo. I like the stories of Rostam better than those of Ali! And I dislike Shamloo's politically dedicated poems like Vaartaan! (and he changed the name in later years as well. Now that was silly, I thought.)
I am afraid a part of my being non-religious commands me to not give a blank check to whatever comes my way, only because it has a big name stuck to it!
Now speaking of Shahnameh, I always wished Shamloo adapted it: i.e took the rhyms out, and wrote it in proes.
thanks Naj for introducing us to this poet from Iran
he reminds with the 1960s Egyptian and Arab leftist poets and their suffering under the different regimes , the dark view of life thanks to what he saw and what he sees now in the world
it reminds with the dark view of the famous Egyptian poet Salah Jahin
Naj by the way I am quite a fan of Persian Pop Music and singers like Googoosh ,yes I know couple words in Persian and I don't understand a single word but the music 1960s always catpures me , also her strong voice
anyhow i downloaded a song for her , a sad one , the music seems to me more from the folkore
it is called Beman Beman ,I wonder if you heard about it ,as I am so interested to know what is it about
Kilroy was here!
Thank you, Naj!
In case you did not know:
http://library.tebyan.net
pen Name
Pen this is great; thanks.
I'm trying to figure out how to login.
aargh, like most "flash"y web sites from Iran this killed my firefox too, and repeatedly so!
Just wonder, these people do not have a mission/affiliation statement page? I wonder they are affiliated with any of the great Islamic encyclopedia organizations?
Hey, don't you think it is funny that a government funds two independent institutions to work on two encyclopedias about Islamic Culture?
naj:
You do not need to logon to read the books.
Here is another site for Persian Dari poetry:
http://www.persopedia.com/
pen Name
But it did ask me to login. and I tried their common user account, and then the whole thing went belly up! :)
I should drop them a comment about the bug perhaps. Will look at the new post soon. Thanks Pen.
On Ancient Iran:
http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/frontpage.htm
pen Name
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